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一位历史系学生如何成为大提琴家丨莎娜·罗尔斯顿专访(二)

Conversation with Shauna Rolston


对话大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿(二)

By Tim Janof




Do you think you had a certain affinity for the cello in the beginning?

问:你认为你一开始对大提琴有某种情结吗?



Yes, I believe I did. I was given my first cello on my second birthday. Even though I thought of it as a fabulous toy, I knew there was something special about it. It felt comfortable right away and it felt as if it were meant for me.


莎娜·罗尔斯顿:是的,我想是。在我二岁生日那天,我得到了第一把大提琴。尽管我认为它是一个神奇的玩具,但我知道它有特殊之处。我当即便感到很舒服,就像它注定是为我而来的。



My parents were very laid back about my cello playing from the beginning. Instead of launching me right away into a regimented practice program, I was given the freedom to experiment with it and find ways to communicate through it. The cello was a source of great fascination and joy for me.


我父母从一开始对我的大提琴演奏很不上心。并没有让我马上开始一个严格安排的练习课程,而是任由我自己去尝试,并找到以琴来进行交流的方式。大提琴是令我着迷并感到快乐的源头。



大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



What did you do during the six years between age 12 and college when you had no cello teacher?

问:从12岁到大学前的六年间,当你没有大提琴老师的时候,你做些什么?


I played chamber music with my parents and traveled a lot, playing concertos and recitals. I also made some recordings. I was so busy performing that it would have been difficult for me to have any sort of normal weekly lessons. It was the only life I knew, so I didn't think of it as particularly unusual. It was only later in life when I realized that other people had a very different experience. It seemed perfectly fine with me at the time and I was quite happy to freely experiment on my own.


莎娜·罗尔斯顿:我和父母一起演奏室内乐,经常旅行,演奏协奏曲和独奏会。我还做了一些录音。我忙着表演,所以很难参加任何常规的每周课程。这是我唯一知道的生活,所以我不认为它特别不寻常。直到后来,我才意识到其他人有非常不同的经历。当时对我来说似乎很好,我很乐意自己自由地摸索和尝试。



I had actually planned on studying with Leonard Rose at Juilliard. He had invited me to work with him when I was eleven or twelve, but it was just at that point that my family had decided to move to Banff. I remember calling him and saying, "I'm just so freaked out, Mr. Rose, because we're moving to Banff, and it's like paradise there. I want to study with you but I think I need to be there."


实际上,我曾计划随伦纳德·罗斯在茱莉亚音乐学院学习。我11岁或12岁时,他邀请我随他一起工作,但就在那时,我的家人决定搬到班夫去。我记得打电话给他时说,“我只是震惊了,罗斯先生,因为我们要搬到班夫,那里就像天堂一样。我想和你一起学习,但我想我需要去那里。”



大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



He was so great about it and very supportive of my decision. I ended up working with Aldo Parisot and Janos Starker in the summers when they came to Banff. I had planned to work with Rose after I finished high school, but he passed away before I had the chance.


他很好,非常支持我的决定。夏天,当阿尔多·帕里索和亚诺什·斯塔克来到班夫时,我和他们一起工作。我本打算高中毕业后随罗斯一起工作,但他在那之前就去世了。



After high school I toured quite a bit. It was during my second year of traveling on my own that I found myself in El Paso to solo with its orchestra. It was a surreal time because the normally dry and hot El Paso had a tiny dusting of snow, which caused the entire city to shut down. My concert was supposed to be canceled that night. Having grown up in the mountains where there is real snow, I couldn't believe it.


高中毕业后,我经常去旅游。在我独自旅行的第二年,我在埃尔帕索和那儿的管弦乐队一起担任独奏。那是段时间有些超现实,通常干燥炎热的埃尔帕索因为下了一点毛毛雪,导致整个城市停摆了。我那天晚上的音乐会被取消了。这简直难以置信,我在山区长大,知道什么才是真正的雪。



Anyway, I was lying in bed in my hotel room and I started thinking about my life's direction. I certainly enjoyed my performing career, but I thought that someday I might want to do something else with my life. I also realized that the longer I waited, the less inclined I would be to go to college, so I decided that it was time for me to add another dimension to my life.


不管怎样,我躺在酒店房间的床上,开始思考我的人生方向。我当然喜欢我的表演事业,但是我想有一天我可能会想做些别的事情。我也意识到,等得越久,去上大学的可能性就越低,所以我决定是时候给我的生活增加另一个维度了。



大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



I was scheduled to play a recital at Yale a few days later and while there I ran my plans by Yale's cello professor, Aldo Parisot. He agreed that I should study at Yale, but there was an application process to deal with. The problem was that I hadn't taken any SAT's or achievement tests and the application deadline was only a few days later. I walked into the admissions office that day and said that I wanted to have an interview.


几天后,我在耶鲁举办一场独奏会,那期间计划,由耶鲁的大提琴教授奥尔多·帕里索为我安排。他同意我应该在耶鲁大学学习,但是有一个申请程序要处理。问题是我没有参加任何入学资考试或成绩测试,申请截止日期仅仅就在几天之后。那天,我走进招生办公室,说我想参加面试。



The woman at the front desk gave me this look like, "Who do you think you are?" I explained that I was playing a recital at Yale and I wanted to become a student. I told her that I needed to have an interview right then and there because I was leaving town the next day. I didn't mean to be arrogant. I just figured that I was in town and I wanted to chat with someone about Yale.


前台的女人给了一个我这样的表情,“你以为你是谁?”我解释说我在耶鲁举办独奏会,我想成为一名学生。我告诉她,我需要马上去面试,因为我第二天就要离开这里了。我并非有意傲慢。我只是觉得我还在那儿,我想找人谈谈上耶鲁的事。



大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



Once she got over her shock, she asked where I was from. When I told her that I was from Banff, she asked "What's a 'Banff'?" After we got through the Banff question, that it was in Canada and that Canada has provinces, not states, she asked which prep school I had attended. When I told her Banff Community High School she had an incredulous look and said, "And you want to go to Yale?" I said, "Yeah, I really do, and I'd really to talk with somebody besides you."


她从惊诧中缓过神来,就问我是哪里人。当我告诉她我来自班夫时,她问“什么是‘班夫’?”在我们说完班夫的问题——如那是在加拿大,加拿大有省,而不是州,她问我上过哪所预科学校。当我告诉她班夫社区高中时,她带着怀疑的表情说,“你想上耶鲁吗?”我说,“是的,我确实想,我真的想要和你们的人谈谈。”



The head of admissions came and I explained my situation to her. She asked, "Where else have you applied?" I said, "Nowhere. I want to go here. I don't have a Plan B." She told me that I had to take the SAT and other achievement tests. I said, "Fine. When and where do I take them?" She said, "Tomorrow ů in Calgary." Yikes!


招生负责人来了,我向她解释了我的情况。她问,“你还在哪里申请过?”我说,“哪儿也不去。我想来这里。她告诉我,我必须参加入学资格考试和其他成绩测试。我说,“好吧。什么时候,在哪儿考呢?”她说,“明天,在卡尔加里。”好呀!



I had a recital that night, so I played the concert and drove all night to Calgary and took the tests the next day. In Canada, it's taken for granted that good students get into the university, so it wasn't until I did some research that I realized how difficult it was to get into Yale. Then it hit me that I had no Plan B and I freaked out. What was I thinking?! Fortunately, Yale accepted me, and I made the most of my time there.


那天晚上我有一场独奏会,所以我开了一整夜的车去卡尔加里,第二天参加了考试。在加拿大,好学生进入大学是理所当然的,所以直到我有了深入了解,才意识到进入耶鲁有多难。然后我突然想到我没有B计划,我吓坏了。我在想什么?!幸运的是,耶鲁接受了我,我在那儿过得非常充实。


大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



I entered Yale as a freshman in Art History while also studying with Mr. Parisot. Mr. Parisot soon asked me to teach other freshman cellists. I ended up getting a Bachelor's in Art History and a Master's in Music five years later. As if this wasn't enough, I was still touring.

我进入耶鲁时是艺术史系的新生,师从帕里索先生。帕里索先生很快就让我教其他拉大提琴的新生。五年后,我获得了艺术史学士学位和音乐硕士学位。此外,我还在巡回演出。



I was taken aback when Mr. Parisot first asked me to be his assistant. I felt humbled and yet affirmed that he felt he could trust me with his students. Then after I had gotten into the rhythm of things with the undergrads, he asked me to take over his graduate student class whenever he was away on tour, which included teaching master classes.


帕里索先生第一次要我做他的助教时,我很吃惊。我感到自己的资历不足,也确实感到了他对我的信任。然后,在我适应了本科生的生活节奏后,他让我在他外出旅行时帮照顾他的研究生班,包括教授硕士课程。



20191101



This was too much and I stammered, "Mr. Parisot, you're so kind to me and I'm honored and flattered that you would ask me to do this, but this doesn't seem appropriate."


这让我受宠若惊,我结结巴巴地说,“帕里索先生,你对我太好了,你能让我这么做,我感到荣幸和受宠若惊,但这似乎不合适。”




He looked at me through his dark glasses and asked, "Do you care about music?" Yes. "Do you think about music?" Yes. "Are you able to articulate your thoughts?" Yes. "So what's the problem?" I guess there wasn't a problem and I told him to have a great trip!

他透过墨镜看着我,问道:“你喜欢音乐吗?”是的。“你在乎音乐吗?”是的。"你能表达你的想法吗?"是的。“那么还有什么问题?”我想没有问题了,就说祝他旅途愉快!


大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



Given that you didn't have much formal training, I would imagine it was a challenge to teach.

问:鉴于你没有受过多少正规训练,我想教学是一个挑战。



Teaching is a tremendous challenge whatever one's background. My lack of formal training had its advantages, though. My musical upbringing had forced me to ask myself lots of questions, starting at a very young age, which meant that I was used to thinking for myself and coming up with my own solutions.


莎娜·罗尔斯顿:无论一个人的背景如何,教学都是一个巨大的挑战。不过,缺乏正规训练也有优势。我的音乐经历迫使我从很小的时候就开始问自己很多问题,这意味着我习惯于独立思考,并找到解决方案。



I found this helpful when teaching others because I was constantly challenging my students to think for themselves too. I was also used to exercising my imagination because I had collaborated with so many composers on their new works.


当我教别人时,我发现这很有帮助,因为我一直在激发我的学生进行独立思考。我也习惯于锻炼我的想象力,因为我和许多作曲家合作创作了他们的新作品。



大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



The collaborative process puts a performer in the position of in essence creating something from nothing since there are no recordings to refer to. I found that teaching really suited me because I felt connected to the whole process of being freely creative and experimental and yet being very systematic and working through various challenges. I felt my job as a teacher was to cultivate in my students a similar sensibility that didn't depend on dogma from others.


因为没有成曲的演奏可供参考,本质上,合作的过程使表演者参与到了从无到有的创作过程。我发现教学真的很适合我,因为我自己对系统的,实验性的,充满挑战的,自由创造的全过程很有感觉。我觉得作为一名教师,我的工作是在学生中培养一种类似的,不依赖他人教条的敏锐感觉。



My background had forced me to come up with my own answers. I was exposed to many musicians and they'd ask me why I did various things. This forced me to analyze my own process and to figure out what I was doing naturally so that I could have an answer the next time I was asked the same questions. Since it wasn't possible for me to have a regular teacher, I was forced to be more self reliant.


我的学习环境迫使我找到自己的答案。我接触了许多音乐家,他们会问我为什么这么做,为什么那么做。这很自然地迫使我分析自己的处理过程,弄清楚自己在做什么,这样下次有人问我同样的问题时,我就有了答案。因为我没有一个正规的老师,所以我只能更多地靠自己。




It was fascinating to teach students who were my exact age and who had taken a more traditional route. This dynamic allowed me to view lessons as more of an exchange of ideas. I wasn't claiming to know more than they did, I just had a different experience.


教和我同龄的学生,而他们有着更传统的学习经历。这很有趣。这种态势让我更多地将课程视为思想交流。我并没有声明自己懂的比他们多,我只是经历不同而已。



大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



Did you find it difficult to do things once you started thinking about them to the degree of detail that enabled you to teach others?


问:一旦你开始把事情想得详细到可以教别人的程度,会发现做起来很难吗?



That never happened to me. It must have been the perfect time for me to start teaching when I entered Yale. I had been doing my own quiet research during my teens, plus I had learned so much from all my performing. Things just fell into place for me. I can't tell you how lucky I feel.


莎娜·罗尔斯顿:这从未发生在我身上。当我进入耶鲁大学时,这一定是我开始教书的最佳时机。我十几岁的时候就一直在默默地进行研究,且从自己所有的表演中学到了很多。事情对我来说刚刚好。我感觉自己太幸运了,难以言喻。




When you don't have a teacher keeping an eye on you week after week, it's easy to develop habits that get in the way later. Are there things you had to unlearn?

问:当没有老师一周接一周地盯着你的时候,很容易养成一些对日后不利的不良习惯。你有什么必须要扬弃的吗?



here were probably things I changed my mind on as I learned more, but I don't think of cello playing in that way. It's my job to figure out a way to precisely express what I believe the composer intended. If this means I have to twist my arm in an unorthodox way or rotate my cello in another, so be it. The notion of what can be considered a "bad habit" becomes much less clear when musical expression becomes the priority.


莎娜·罗尔斯顿:随着我学到的东西越来越多,可能我改变了对一些事的看法,但我不认为大提琴演奏同样如此。我的工作是找到一种方法来准确地表达我所理解的作曲家意图。如果这意味着我必须以一种非正统的方式移动手臂或者以另一种方式转动大提琴,这样做就好了。当音乐表达成为优先项时,什么可以被认为是“坏习惯”的概念就变得不那么明朗了。


威廉·普莱斯

威廉·普莱斯


What was it like studying with William Pleeth?

问:和威廉·普莱斯学习是什么感觉?


I worked with him a little at the Britain Peers School for one summer. I don't recall anything specific, but I do recall that he had tremendous energy and was very good at explaining things. At that time I was enamored with Jacqueline du Pré, so I enjoyed the sense of connection with her through him.


莎娜·罗尔斯顿:我和他一起在英国贵族学校工作了一个夏天。我不记得任何具体的事情,但我记得他精力充沛,非常擅长解释事情。那时我正迷着杰奎琳·杜·普雷,所以我喜欢通过他以更深刻地感受她。



I imagine his approach meshed well with yours, since he encouraged his students to find the technique necessary for expression.


问:我想他的方法和你的很契合,因为他也鼓励学生找到必要的表达技巧。



We seemed to have similar goals. I enjoyed my time with him and learned a lot. I have always been interested in cultivating technique on a personal level. I don't believe that there is a generic technique that you can somehow turn on a switch and suddenly create magic. Music and technique are intertwined.


莎娜·罗尔斯顿:我们似乎有相似的目标。我喜欢和他在一起的时光,学到了很多东西。我一直对培养个性化层面的技术感兴趣。我不相信有一种通用的技术可以让你合上开关,突然创造奇迹。音乐和技术是相互交织在一起的。



大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿



对话大提琴家莎娜·罗尔斯顿(一)



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